From HERBERT F.
I was Saved in 1950 and received the Baptism of the Holy Spirit in 1953 while studying for the ministry at a Pentecostal Bible College. I am currently attempting to find the answer to a question that seems to be hard for anyone I talk with to explain. Would be glad to hear your response. The question is: What has to happen to change the manifestation of public tongues in the church from madness to meaning?
In verse 22 of 1 Cor. 14 Paul writes: Wherefore tongues are for a sign – not to them that believe but to them that believe not…”
Verse 23 of 1 Cor. 14 states, “If therefore the whole church be come together into one place, and all speak with tongues and there come in those that are unlearned or unbelievers, will they not say that ye are mad?
How does the transition from madness to meaning occur for the unbeliever? How would tongues be a sign to the unbeliever since Paul seems to insist that there always be an interpretation to tongues spoken? I could go on with questions, but you get my drift. Can you help me grasp this?
Herbert Carter
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Dear Herbert,
Thank you for writing. Your questions are understandable and typical. Hopefully, I will be able to help you understand Paul’s language here.
First, I would like to point out that your testimony of “getting saved” in 1950 is contrary to the teaching of Jesus, Paul, and the entire NT. To make such a claim is a twentieth century spiritual fad that swept practically all of God’s children off their feet in that century, but one that has no biblical basis. You do not have salvation yet, nor do I, nor does anyone else who is still on this earth. Salvation is synonymous with “glorification”, not with “conversion”. This is why Paul could say such things as “our salvation is nearer than when we believed”, and Peter could describe salvation as “the end of your faith”. In the twentieth century, Christians altered the definition “salvation” and made it the beginning of their faith instead of the end. This was a great error and has led to a widespread misunderstanding of some of the the most fundamental elements of the gospel of Jesus Christ, including speaking in tongues. This happened in spite of the fact that throughout Church history, no Christian leader, included those famed “church fathers”, ever claimed that they had “gotten saved”, as you and many others have been taught to do. Romans 10:9-10 is an exhortation to the saints (see 10:1) to “endure to the end”, as Jesus repeatedly said we must do if we hope to be saved; it is not instructions to sinners concerning how to be converted.
As for your comments on Paul’s words in 1Corinthians 14:
The question is: What has to happen to change the manifestation of public tongues in the church from madness to meaning?
In verse 22 of 1 Cor. 14 Paul writes: Wherefore tongues are for a sign – not to them that believe but to them that believe not…”
Verse 23 of 1 Cor. 14 states, “If therefore the whole church be come together into one place, and all speak with tongues and there come in those that are unlearned or unbelievers, will they not say that ye are mad?
How does the transition from madness to meaning occur for the unbeliever?
“From madness to meaning”. That’s a catchy phrase. I’ll have to use that some time. Hope you won’t mind.
Herbert, think about what you are saying. There is no transition “from madness to meaning” for the tongues themselves. The tongues are from God and are not madness to start with. Therefore, they have no transition to make. Sinful men are the ones who are mad. And if those “ignorant and unbelieving” sinners hear God’s people speak in tongues and are touched by what they hear, then they may be translated out of their madness into God’s meaning. Speaking in tongues will never seem anything but madness to ignorant unbelievers who have a hard heart toward God. You know that.
Paul did not say, nor did he ever suggest, that speaking in tongues was madness. What he said was that speaking in tongues would be called madness by those who were without the knowledge of God, by those who did not yet believe. But nothing the Spirit does is madness. The power of the Spirit is the only thing that can make us truly sane.
Part of your confusion concerning Paul’s teaching springs from the mistranslation of the word ekklesia that we find in so many Bibles. That word refers to an assembly of God’s people, not a building. The Greek word for a building (“church”) is kuriakon, and it appears nowhere in the NT. The word “church” has been imposed upon the holy text by ignorant and unbelieving churchmen who have always considered an assembly of holy-ghost filled people to be madness, and have always persecuted them for their fellowship in the holy ghost.
When you read Paul’s counsel to the saints to testify/preach only in a language that can be understood instead of speaking in tongues when “in the church”, you should understand that Paul is referring to a person speaking to the assembly. He is not forbidding them to speak in tongues inside a church building! It is really silly to suggest that he did. In fact, Paul specifically commands the saints NOT to forbid anyone to speak in tongues.
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How would tongues be a sign to the unbeliever since Paul seems to insist that there always be an interpretation to tongues spoken? I could go on with questions, but you get my drift. Can you help me grasp this?
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It has never seemed to me that Paul was suggesting that in a gathering of the saints, no one should speak in tongues unless there is an interpreter present, so I cannot tell you why it seems that way to you, unless it be that you are thinking “building” when you read the word “church” (for ekklesia). Sorry. Wish I could help with that. The truth is that Paul is speaking of saints who are addressing the assembly. Nothing he says in this chapter has anything to do with a building.
I hope that helps.
God bless, and please stay in touch!
Pastor John