http://www.goingtojesus.com/tongues-at-spirit-baptism.html
Greetings in the name of Jesus!
In my research on the development of the religious system of Christianity, which system I have renounced in favor of Christ Jesus my Lord, I came across The Two Babylons, and then, of course, your two books related to that one. I just wanted to tell you that I was touched by your sincerity in making the effort and going to the expense of correcting your errors when you discovered that you had made them. I have been through similar situations, and I know what it takes to make that kind of choice, when it entails significant personal loss. (But what is the alternative if we truly love the Lord?) May God bless you for your integrity, and may He continue to guide you and yours to His ever-increasing light.
Pastor John Clark
www.GoingtoJesus.com
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From: Ralph W
Thank you for being in touch and your kind thoughts. I have looked at your website; this is quite a layout of subjects, etc., very well done. It seems you are saying that when one is born again he will speak in tongues. I have been to the location of the Azusa Street Mission in Los Angeles. A lot of the speaking in tongues that is well known today seems to have stemmed from this revival in 1906. But my question is: What about all the centuries before that back to the early church. Who spoke in tongues in those centuries or, the greater question, was anyone saved or born again in those centuries? I believe in speaking in tongues, so that is not an issue with me. Any thoughts? Blessings.
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Thank you for your reply. Your question is perfectly reasonable, and everyone who deals with this subject has asked it, or should have asked it.
Of course, you know that the baptism of the holy ghost with the evidence of speaking in tongues was being experienced and taught before it was made famous at Azusa Street, by people from Kansas and Texas, etc. But even at that, the issue of a marked absence of the testimonies of such people in the historical record from the days of the apostles still must be addressed. Were it not for a few suggestive episodes and comments scattered throughout the historical record, one might assume that Spirit-baptized people did not exists at all from the time of the apostles until the Azusa Street revival (I have also been in that area several times, visiting my daughter who is in graduate school at Fuller Seminary).
It is common knowledge that the surviving historical records of Western Culture were made and maintained by Churchmen. These Churchmen, as their own records show, were so devoted to their faith that they did not often wince at resorting to cruelty or injustice in dealing with those who dared to oppose their power. We know that, for example in the case of Arius, the Emperor Constantine used the full weight of his empire to eradicate Arius’ influence after the council of Nicea. All of Arius’ writings were ordered destroyed (none survive), he himself was exiled, and any home in which Arius’ doctrine was taught was confiscated by Empire and turned over to the Catholic Church. The only information about Arius that was allowed to survive was that which Churchmen themselves wrote about him. It was entirely in their hands as to whether or not any records concerning Arius would remain.
An even more interesting character is Montanus. At the critical time when the Catholic Church was taking shape, while charismatic assemblies were swiftly fading from view, Montanus (according to the records left by Churchmen) denounced “the whole catholic church under heaven.” The very few sentences from Montanus which Churchmen recorded for posterity strike me as exactly what Paul or Peter might have said in similar circumstances. We cannot safely judge Montanus at all, whether he was of God or not, but he is an intriguing character. But the Churchmen of his time certainly condemned him, and the commentaries of Church scholars and Christian ministers follow suit. They typically trust the ancient opinions of those who hated Montanus without sufficient consideration of what Montanus might have seen happening to the faith.
So, my answer to your very good question is that recorded history can only be as reliable as the recorders of that history. And if the recorders of that history were ungodly and unreliable, then an appeal to that history is fruitless in one’s search for truth. The recorders of history from the time of the apostles until the Reformation were servants to an iron kingdom which was committed to one goal: earthly power. And they brooked no dissent.
It seems obvious to me that the deep, oppressive darkness which that evil Institution brought over mankind in the West lingered, even after men knew that the darkness existed, that the Institution was evil. Martin Luther, in the beginning, had no thought of leaving the Church. He just wanted the obvious corruptions dealt with. In his 95 Theses, if I remember correctly, he spoke very reverentially of the Pope, still calling him “holy father”, contrary to the expressed command of Christ (Mt. 23:0). So, I see the events subsequent to the Reformation as a gradual “waking up” of God’s scattered and confused people, drugged and drunk as all nations have been on the wine that is in the great whore’s cup.
In sum, because of who has been in charge of the existing records, I cannot see recorded history as a just arbiter in the controversy over whether or not all who are baptized with the Spirit (i.e., are born of the Spirit) speak in tongues at the moment of their baptism. In the end, we cannot trust anything but the Spirit to guide us into to all truth, along with the Scriptures, which were inspired by and are rightly understood only by that same Spirit. This is why I wrote the little book, Speaking in Tongues at Spirit Baptism. I am convinced that the typical Pentecostal position (I am not a “Pentecostal”) is the correct one; to wit, that speaking in tongues (or “stammering lips”, per Isaiah) is the “initial evidence” of receiving the Spirit of God. If one can just put, for a moment, the religious system of Christianity out of mind, I believe that what the Bible says on the matter would be much easier to perceive.
Thank you again for writing. I have been hoping, before too much longer, to visit some friends who recently retired to Palm Springs. If so, maybe we can find some time to sit down and chat.
God bless.
Your servant,
jdc