Hi everyone:
After this morning’s session on the father and Son book, I am beginning to really wonder if I will ever get all this written down.
Here are some thoughts to consider, in case it takes me a long time to get it all down. Maybe some of the folk here with me will add to these thoughts, from what they remember:
(1) In this Creation, every creature’s nature is determined by the kind of body it possesses. If you had the body of a fish, you would have the nature of a fish. If you had the body of a tree, you would have a tree’s nature. If you had the nature of an angel, it would only be because you had the body of an angel.
(2) Jesus Christ was the first of a new kind of creature; one whose body did not determine what kind of nature he had.
The nature he had from the Father was a divine nature, but his body was made of flesh. My father’s mentor in Christ once told him that sinners cannot be tempted because it was their nature to sin. That is the kind of thing I am saying. The “flesh wars against the Spirit” within us because the holy Spirit brings with it the nature of God, and God’s nature is contrary to the kind of bodies we have.
(3) Nobody with a body that is different from his nature belongs in a universe where one’s body determines what kind nature he has. To prepare a place for His children to live, who are now living in a fleshly body with His nature inside it, God has prepared a new heaven and new earth. He will destroy this heaven and earth, where creatures belong are bound to act according to the nature of their bodies, and give us glorious bodies to match our divine natures.
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It will be a great relief to get a new body that matches what we really are inside. No more “war”, but we will enter into a “final” rest and peace.
Gary
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Rob read this out loud to us all this morning. Wonderful! I like it just like it is! 🙂 I never even understood the words “the temptation” much less what was going on!
Donna
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Wow. “This is big yall!”
Most of Xnty teaches that even after you are “born again” you will still sin, that everyone HAS to sin, because they can’t help it, or because of the devil or… And if their version of being born again doesn’t involve spirit baptism (with evidence by tongues, then their doctrine is true. Without God’s spirit, there is nothing to war against the flesh, and the flesh is sinful by its nature.
Another thought – that’s why on the new heaven/earth, there will be new bodies that belong with the new nature.
Big! Whew!
Richard
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Wow! We just read this out here on the porch in Boone. Whew is right!
Rob
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Ha! Wow! Just copy and paste that into the book somewhere. So good!
Aaron
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Wow John, this is something. It helps to understand better now why the “flesh wars against the Spirit” as it does. God sure is pouring out some good new thoughts on us…. Keep working. 🙂
Lou
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Wow. I’ve been thinking this week about the shame I feel at times just from having this fleshly body (I don’t quite know how to put this), and the war it is constantly waging against the Spirit. I feel like my spirit is clean (though God is the judge of that), but the flesh is always hanging around, ready to “muddy the waters”, or whatever, and it makes me feel ashamed at times, when I haven’t done anything wrong (again, I don’t know how to put it). Thankfully(!), as you put below, we won’t have to live forever with that “conflict”. That is REALLY something to look forward to.
This reminds me years ago when I finally realized I had the holy ghost (in that meeting in Henderson when I was turning flips, really drinking it in, etc.) and Sandy said something about the flesh just getting in the way, or not lining up, when we were rejoicing (or however she put it), and I blurted out, “Ain’t that the truth!!” I remember marveling that night (when I was VERY young in the Lord, not knowing anything) of how the flesh was still there the whole time, warring against what was going on.
This is a wonderful thing to think about.
Thanks.
Taylor
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I have been thinking lately, about the shape of the Spirit that entered Jesus’ fleshly body. The shape was like a dove. If Jesus shared the life of his Father, then the Spirit that came in the shape of the dove, tells me a lot about the Father. Jesus said that he and the Father was one. Then, if God’s life is dwelling in us, then what kind of spirit are we suppose to have?
Billy M
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A glorified body is free, Billy. It is not bound to any particular body form, though there is a basic one that is “in the likeness of God”. John saw the Son of God in Revelation, first as a brilliant, majestic figure. But later, when John was caught up into heaven, he saw the Son of God as a lamb that had been slaughtered. The Son is “free indeed”, body, soul, and spirit, and he passes that freedom to everyone who believes in him.
jdc
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This is wonderful. Perfect.
I have observed several debates on FB between Xns; some are Calvinist and some are vehemently opposed to the [evidently] Calvinist doctrine of “original sin.”
You must know, from your seminary days, about Calvin’s beliefs. I do not. I have not taken the time to analyze them to see whether they are biblical or not, and how Calvin arrived at his beliefs, to compare them with other Xn claims. Forgive my confusion, John. . . would you clarify it in simple terms? This segment from your chapter indicates that all men, women and children are sinners by nature. That is my understanding, from Bible study, as well. How is it that many Xns embrace the belief that men choose to sin, but are not sinners by nature; not “born sinners” because of Adam’s fall in the garden? Again, forgive me if my question if a dumb question. I am just looking for insight as to how they arrive at their doctrine, and claim they are biblically accurate.
Brad
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I can’t tell you how Christians come to teach any of their confusing doctrines, except it be they they are confused to start with and, so, their doctrines will reflect that. But to answer your question….
Every human being who has lived since Adam has sinned, just as Paul wrote, “All have sinned and come short of the glory of God.” From that, we can believe that every one of the billions of people who have lived on earth had an option to be holy but chose to sin (what an amazing co-incidence!), or we can believe that every one of those billions of people has sinned because it is human nature to do so. Now, what do you think? 🙂
Thanks for the question, Brad.
jdc