Hi Mr. Julien.
Thank you for reading what I wrote, for thinking about it, and for letting me know what you thought. There is no other way for us to be made one than to be open with one another.
I have inserted my replies to your good questions within your letter, below.
Thank you again for writing. I look forward to further communications with you.
Pastor John
============
Pastor Clark,
I read ” The Influence of Trinitarian Doctrine on Translations of the Bible – How faithful to the original text is the translation of the Bible that you use?” I have many questions and comments. Let me start by the less sensitive subjects. I will send you the rest in a couple of upcoming emails.
You wrote: “I opened my King James and read the first line of Revelation 2: To the angel of the church in Ephesus, write. Immediately, the Spirit spoke to me and said, “This is a message to an individual, not to the whole congregation.” Now, I and everyone I knew had always understood this passage to be one of seven messages to seven congregations of Asia. But the Spirit was now telling me that there was no such thing as seven messages to seven congregations. Instead, I was being told that these seven messages were intended for the individual pastors of those congregations, not to the congregations themselves!”
I am in total disagreement with what you said.
============
That’s OK. I was in total disagreement with what I said there, too, until the Spirit showed me otherwise. 🙂
============
Please read the entirety of chapters 2 and 3 of Revelation in Greek, underline ALL the times that “you” is used, and see if you can make the same conclusion. Read especially chapter 2 verses 10, 13, 24, and 25.
============
You must know that I have already done that. What you read in the online Trinity study is a very abbreviated version of my testimony about that. The complete version is in my online book on Revelation at https://goingtojesus.com/gtj_books.html?tname=revelation
There, I explain why the you’s in some verses are singular while others are plural.
============
If the message was not intended for the congregation, how can we understand Revelation 1:4, 10-11?
============
Excellent, thoughtful question, Mr. Julien.
That Jesus intended for their congregations to hear the messages read is an issue separate from what the messages were. Clearly, the messages were to be read aloud before the whole congregation, but except for the exceptions which I noted in my online book on Revelation (mentioned above), the messages themselves were directed to the pastors.
============
If the message was not intended for the whole congregation, the conclusion of each letter would be meaningless, wouldn’t it? How can we understand, “He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit is saying to the Assemblies.”? Wouldn’t it be more understandable if it were, “He (in this case “the angel of the church”) who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit is saying to him”?
============
Another good question, Mr. Julien.
If the whole congregation was listening to the messages being read, the individuals in that congregation would certainly have taken that conclusion personally, and they should have. But that does not change the fact that Jesus is speaking first and foremost to the pastor.
============
If the message was intended for an individual and not the whole congregation, should we understand that it was the human leader and not the whole congregation who had all those spiritual problems?
============
When you read the part of my book which deals with Revelation 2 and 3, you will see that Jesus sees the congregations’ problems as being a direct result of the pastors’ failure to do their job.
============
If the message intended for the angels of the churches and not the churches, how should we interpret Revelation 22:16?
============
Most translations have something like, “I have sent my messenger to testify of these things for the Assemblies.” The welfare of the Assemblies is the whole point of every message that is in John’s Revelation, whether the message be of things to come in the future or the spiritual condition of a pastor and his congregation. That is how I read Revelation 22:16.
============
One more thing. The fact that the singular is used doesn’t mean that the message is not to the whole congregation. In many OT passages, the singular personal pronoun “you” is used when God speaks to the people of Israel (Isaiah 30:20-21).
============
The subject in those verses from Isaiah is “people” (verse 19), which in Hebrew is a singular noun, and when “people” is the subject, the following verbs and pronouns are often, but not always, singular. The same holds true for words such as “Israel”. A group is meant, but the word itself is singular. But Hebrew grammar is inconsistent in this and other matters.
The same cannot be said about the word “messenger” in Revelation. That refers to a person, never to a group, and the singular you’s in Revelation 2 and 3 refer only to the messenger of the congregation. When Jesus addresses the whole congregation instead of the messenger, he uses the plural form of you instead – very consistently.
=============
Some examples of this usage can also be found in the NT like in Matthew 23:37-39.
=============
Here are those verses (my translation, with notes):
- “O Jerusalem! Jerusalem! She who kills [singular] the prophets and stones [singular] those who are sent to her! How many times have I wanted to gather your [singular] children together, the way a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you [plural] would not!
- Behold! Your [plural] house is left to you [plural], desolate.
- For I tell you [plural], you [plural] will by no means see me from now on, until you [plural] say, ‘Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord.’”
The subject of these verses being “Jerusalem” (a singular noun referring to a group), one may use either a singular or plural verb or pronoun. This is not the case with words which never signify a group, such as “king”, “wife”, or “messenger”.
============
I hope you will be honest in your answer, Pastor Clark.
Thank you in advance.
Humbly,
Herbert Julien
============
I have done my best, Mr. Julien. Feel free to let me know if I have failed to answer any of your questions adequately. Please stay in touch.
Your servant in Christ,
John
PS. I do hope you will read the section of my online book on Revelation which deals with the messages to the seven pastors.