http://www.goingtojesus.com/suffering-and-the-saints.html

​Good morning Bro John,

I have been reading in the “Suffering and the Saints” book this morning. The section on “The Saints in Corinth” felt so valuable to me after the meeting last night.

We all have said how much we love this book and what it means to have the truth taught by an anointed man of God. Well, what you said last night is what is in this section of the book.

So I typed up just one page that is so good.

Sheila

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Suffering and the Saints  

From the section: The Saints in Corinth – Pages 175, 176, 177: 

The subject of chastisement of the saints should never be treated as a subject that is apart from the goodness and wisdom and power of the Creator. His goodness, because God corrects us for our benefit, not His own. His wisdom, because He knows the thoughts and intents of our heart and makes righteous judgments. His power, because it is He alone who determines how and when and by whom our correction will come, whether by revelation, or by the exhortation of an elder, or by sickness, weakness, and even premature death. 

Those sufferings are from God, in wisdom measured by Him specifically for individual members and are judgments of the Lord. We can have hope and comfort, as long as we understand that the Lord’s discipline is a sure indication of His love and that the purpose is not to condemn but to save as Paul explained: When we are judged, we are chastened y the Lord so that we should not be condemned with the world.         

When God chastens, He chastens with a good, healing purpose.

That story of the lost lamb, told by Jesus, indicates that there is not an obedient saint alive who stands any closer to God’s heart than the saint who has sinned and is now suffering the bitter consequence.

Our loving heavenly Father does not afflict willingly nor grieve His children but when we resist His will, we push Him to unpleasant and severe measures. But it is with GREAT  thankfulness that it is still our heavenly Father who holds the chastening rod. Even though He causes grief, He will have compassion according to the multitude of His mercies. 

In difficult times, it is comforting to remember that the disciplining of the saints is a family affair. 

The worst thing that could happen is to be given free rein in our sin, to be abandoned to wander in darkness of our own stubborn way. 

The Father’s gentle, comforting touch shows us the higher way. Sometimes for our sakes, He must be more forceful. Nevertheless, when those harsher times come, we can still be confident that it is our father at work, answering – in His wise way – our prayers to be made more pleasing in His sight.  

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Hey Brother John,

Part of this page that Sheila typed out reminded me of one of my favorite verses.  She wrote, ​”In difficult times, it is comforting to remember that the disciplining of the saints is a family affair. The worst thing that could happen is to be given free rein in our sin, to be abandoned to wander in darkness of our own stubborn way.”

Last winter you encouraged all of us to go back and study the law, which I did.  That’s when I ran across this verse.  (Lev. 19:17)  “Thou shalt not hate thy brother in thy heart: thou shalt in any wise rebuke thy neighbor, and not suffer sin upon him.”     

I have been on the receiving end of the kind of love that is required to keep that commandment.  The memories of that love is what makes that verse so special to me.  The saints that meet at your house that have loved me enough to keep me on the right track are very valuable to me.  All of them are very dear to my heart, and I hope that they can see that in the way that I treat them now.

Looking forward to getting my copy of the book soon.

Billy H.

http://www.goingtojesus.com/suffering-and-the-saints.html

​Good morning,

Don’t know why this section about King Sennacherib was so interesting to me​.  I just keep thinking about it:  

“The intoxicating gratification of his success blurred his judgment.”​

Your descriptive words caused me to think of their meaning. He was just drunk with joy, excitement and happiness in achieving his goal of success (in destroying Israel and Judah) that he forgot Jehovah, became proud, blasphemed God and took all the credit for himself.  

He didn’t stay sober-minded. In other words, he got “stuck on himself” with his accomplishments. Human nature just loves pride and to boast in itself. 

There is so much in this book to stop and think about and absorb. Of course, I have many, many favorite sections (not quite finished it yet). 

Sheila

Hi John,

This evening I picked up an article of yours entitled “A Better End” which you had written when Josiah and Kaylie were married, and it caught my attention.

Some of the truths in it really rang true in light of the hour we are in.  I typed up a few things that I thought were especially important to fathers and every believer, really. 

Here are the things you wrote that stood out to me:

In Ecclesiastes, Solomon is quoted in the King James version as saying:  “better is the end of a thing than the beginning thereof” (Eccl.7:8).  But that is true only in cases of something bad. The end of disease in your body, for example, is better than the start of it; and the end of a war on earth is better than the beginning of that war. 

If marriage sanctioned by God ends in divorce, the end is certainly not better than the beginning.  God hates that kind of end to a marriage he has sanctioned.

It is the completion, not the untimely end of a good thing that is better than the beginning of it.  And that is true of every good thing in this life, including life itself.

For our ends to be better than our beginnings we have to start something good, and then complete it.  Continue in the good things God has given you; be patient, and let them bear fruit.  If we love what good thing God has granted [us], then we will all do our part to give [each other] the help [we] need to reach that expected, better end.  May God give us the grace to do so.

The thing that stood out to me was that to truly be like Christ, we can’t stop short of completion.  The changes God requires of us now must happen, and then they must “stick.”  That is the “better end”, that is our victorious testimony.  That is the life God wants for us:  faithful now, and faithful to the end.  Changed now, and walking in that change till the end. 

And “any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.” (James 1:5).  I have always loved that verse.  If we believe it, if our heart is in it, God will do it.  Why wouldn’t He?  That is our better end.

Gary

Hey John,

I forgot to tell you, I had a George Clark dream last night!

In the dream, we were all sitting around in his house, and he was older, and he said that the Lord showed him the previous night that anytime a man says to God’s people, “Let us pray,” and then starts talking, it’s just another ceremony to run from.

Then the scene changed, and he was going to speak at some meeting the same afternoon, and when he got up to talk, the very first thing he said was what he just told us.  In the dream, the thing that struck me was how he had seen that truth just that morning, and then, that same afternoon, he was giving it out already.
🙂

It was so real seeing him like that.  It was a good feeling dream.

Gary

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That’s the way it is with everyone walking in the Spirit, Gary.  When God shows them something, it immediately becomes who they are.  They actually become the truth they have seen.  I saw Preacher Clark, and others like him, do that a hundred times.

I recently talked to a man about some spiritual things, and afterward, he attended one of our prayer meetings.  Later, he told someone that he was amazed to hear me express in front of everybody some of the same things I had said to him.  From that, I could tell he was used to having private conversations with pastors in which thoughts were expressed about spiritual matters that could not be spoken before the congregation. That was sad to me, but I suspect it is pretty common.

I don’t know why Jesus gave you that dream, Gary, but it was real.  I grew up in the Lord under godly people who live in the liberty “wherewith Christ has made us free”, and whenever God fed them a meal, they told about it with joy and without fear.

Let’s follow their example!

jdc

http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/jdc3

Hi Pastor John,

Every 3 months, we run a report to see how many streams and downloads we have for the Thanksgiving Live Vol. 2 so we can pay the royalties due to the company who oversees that.  This reporting period, July – September, we had 224 individual song streams on that one particular CD.  We had people listening on iTunes in Canada, South Africa, and even one download of “Reach Out and Touch the Lord” on iTunes in Singapore.

Since there was in increase in streaming on that CD, I checked out our other CD’s too.  On the Father and Son Music CD, someone in Singapore has also downloaded “You’re Still God”.  Looking at the Thanksgiving Live Vol. 1, there has been a definite increase in streaming, showing just over 100 streams in a two day period (The Rose, Jesus’ Fax Machine, The Book of Hebrews, Together in Unity, etc.).

It is exciting to think of any of God’s children finding our music and finding comfort, strength, and hearing an echo to what the Spirit is saying inside of them.  There were recently 10 streams in one day of “Jesus’ Fax Machine”!  Now, whoever is listening to that song and enjoying it is my friend! 🙂  I pray for our brothers and sisters.  This is music for them!

Donna

Hello everybody.

Today at lunch, Vince asked me a simple question that turned into a pretty big deal – with us, anyway.  So, I thought I’d pass it along.

Vince asked me what Jesus preached in the heart of the earth when he went down there?  I told him that Jesus would have had to preach the same thing he preached on earth.  He had to tell them that he had come from heaven, and that he had died for the sins of the world, and that whoever believed on him would have eternal life.  The people who heard Jesus preaching, whether they were in Paradise or Torment, would have had to believe what Jesus said in order to be saved in the end, the same way the people on earth had to believe.  Nobody in the heart of the earth had the Spirit, and so, nobody in the heart of the earth knew the Son of God.  Amy said she had always thought the people in Hades were excited and rejoicing when Jesus came there.   But there was not a great celebration when Jesus descended into Hades.  He was just another man who had died and went to where dead people always went when they died at that time.  It wasn’t as if the people in Hades knew that this was the man who had raised the dead because the people that Jesus had raised from the dead were not down there to tell them.  They had to believe the gospel just like everybody else had to believe it.

The righteous souls who were in Paradise had the kind of spirit that would have believed Jesus and the ungodly souls who were in Torment probably would have refused to believe him.  Jesus could have told them that he was going to leave Hades in a few days and separate Paradise from Torment and take Paradise with him when he rose from the dead, but who could have believed that?  Nobody had ever done that before!

The main point is that only those who have the Spirit can know the Son and nobody in the heart of the earth had the Spirit.

jdc

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John,

The scene that comes to my mind is where, in Luke 9:30, Moses and Elias appeared with Jesus.  Were they in Paradise?  Did they tell those there the messiah was coming to preach or did John the Baptist continue his ministry in Paradise. 

Wendell

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Good questions, Wendell!

As for Moses and Elijah, neither of them was in Paradise.  Nor could they go there. Paradise was for dead people.  Elijah had never died, and Moses died but it appears that he was soon raised from the dead to prevent Satan from using his dead body (Jude 9). Moses and Elijah will return and preach to Israel, and be killed (Rev. 13), and then they will finally be taken into Paradise, which is now in heaven instead of in the heart of the earth.

Those two great men of God knew that Jesus had to die in Jerusalem, but they had no way of truly knowing either the Father or the Son because the knowledge of God comes through the Spirit, and “the holy Spirit was not yet given because Jesus was not yet glorified.”

As for John the Baptist, he did not know the Son before he died, and death did not reveal the Son to him.  Nothing in heaven or on earth or under the earth has ever revealed the Son of God to anybody!  ONLY THE HOLY GHOST DWELLING INSIDE A PERSON REVEALS THE SON OF GOD TO THAT PERSON!  

In Paradise, John could tell about seeing a dove light on Jesus, along with his other experiences on earth, and he could share with those who are with him in Paradise the messages the Spirit spoke through him on earth.   But as for his ministry, it ended – for him – when died. Also, his baptism was only for Jews who were alive.  And besides that, from what Jesus said in his parable about the rich man who died, it appears that John would not have found enough water in Hades to baptize anybody, even if he wanted to.

========= On 10/14/2014 4:33 PM, John Clark Sr wrote:

Trust me, folks.  ALL wisdom and knowledge was hidden in the Son, and until the Son was not revealed until the holy ghost came.  Trust me.  NOBODY knew either the Father or the Son until then, and even at that, it took time for those with the holy ghost to realize all that had been revealed.

🙂

jdc

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Wow, that’s interesting. I always thought everyone there in hell knew exactly who Jesus was. Its amazing to now think they did not know!! Beyond my original ideas I didn’t know anything else. I would have guessed that only those in good spiritual condition and had been faithful to the law would have been glad to see Jesus.

Thank you so much for teaching us the truth! I love it!

Jenny