{"id":12453,"date":"2021-10-18T00:29:00","date_gmt":"2021-10-18T00:29:00","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/pjhmail.wordpress.com\/?p=12453"},"modified":"2021-10-18T00:29:00","modified_gmt":"2021-10-18T00:29:00","slug":"trinity-study","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/pastorjohnshouse.com\/mailbag\/12453\/trinity-study\/","title":{"rendered":"Trinity Study"},"content":{"rendered":"

Hi Mr. Julien.<\/em><\/span><\/p>\n

Thank you for reading what I wrote, for thinking about it, and for letting me know what you thought.\u00a0\u00a0There is no other way for us to be made one than to be open with one another.<\/em><\/span><\/p>\n

I have inserted my replies to your good questions within your letter, below.<\/em><\/span><\/p>\n

Thank you again for writing.\u00a0\u00a0I look forward to further communications with you.<\/em><\/span><\/p>\n

Pastor John\u00a0<\/em><\/span><\/p>\n

============<\/span><\/p>\n

Pastor Clark,<\/span><\/p>\n

I read ” The Influence of Trinitarian Doctrine on Translations of the Bible<\/strong>\u00a0<\/a><\/span> – How faithful to the original text is the translation of the Bible that you use?” I have many questions and comments. Let me start by the less sensitive subjects. I will send you the rest in a couple of upcoming emails.<\/span><\/p>\n

You wrote: “I opened my King James and read the first line of Revelation 2: To the angel of the church in Ephesus, write. Immediately, the Spirit spoke to me and said, \u201cThis is a message to an individual, not to the whole congregation.\u201d Now, I and everyone I knew had always understood this passage to be one of seven messages to seven congregations of Asia. But the Spirit was now telling me that there was no such thing as seven messages to seven congregations. Instead, I was being told that these seven messages were intended for the individual pastors of those congregations, not to the congregations themselves!\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n

I am in total disagreement with what you said.<\/span><\/p>\n

============<\/span><\/p>\n

That\u2019s OK.\u00a0\u00a0I was in total disagreement with what I said there, too, until the Spirit showed me otherwise.\u00a0\u00a0\ud83d\ude42<\/em><\/span><\/p>\n

============<\/span><\/p>\n

Please read the entirety of chapters 2 and 3 of Revelation in Greek, underline ALL the times that “you” is used, and see if you can make the same conclusion. Read especially chapter 2 verses 10, 13, 24, and 25.<\/span><\/p>\n

============<\/span><\/p>\n

You must know that I have already done that.\u00a0\u00a0What you read in the online Trinity study is a very abbreviated version of my testimony about that.\u00a0\u00a0The complete version is in my online book on Revelation at\u00a0<\/span><\/strong><\/em><\/span>https:\/\/goingtojesus.com\/gtj_books.html?tname=revelation<\/em><\/strong><\/span><\/p>\n

There, I explain why the\u00a0you’s\u00a0in some verses are singular while others are plural.<\/em><\/span><\/p>\n

============<\/em><\/span><\/p>\n

If the message was not intended for the congregation, how can we understand Revelation 1:4, 10-11?<\/span><\/p>\n

============<\/span><\/p>\n

Excellent, thoughtful question, Mr. Julien.<\/em><\/span><\/p>\n

That Jesus intended for their congregations to hear the messages read is an issue separate from what the messages were.\u00a0\u00a0Clearly, the messages were to be read aloud before the whole congregation, but except for the exceptions which I noted in my online book on Revelation (mentioned above), the messages themselves were directed to the pastors.<\/em><\/span><\/p>\n

============<\/span><\/p>\n

If the message was not intended for the whole congregation, the conclusion of each letter would be meaningless, wouldn’t it? How can we understand, “He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit is saying to the Assemblies.”?\u00a0\u00a0Wouldn’t it be more understandable if it were, “He (in this case “the angel of the\u00a0 church”) who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit is saying to him\u201d?<\/span><\/p>\n

============<\/span><\/p>\n

Another good question, Mr. Julien.<\/em><\/span><\/p>\n

If the whole congregation was listening to the messages being read, the individuals in that congregation would certainly have taken that conclusion personally, and they should have.\u00a0\u00a0But that does not change the fact that Jesus is speaking first and foremost to the pastor.<\/em><\/span><\/p>\n

============<\/span><\/p>\n

If the message was intended for an individual and not the whole congregation, should we understand that it was the human leader and not the whole congregation who had all those spiritual problems?<\/span><\/p>\n

============<\/span><\/p>\n

When you read the part of my book which deals with Revelation 2 and 3, you will see that Jesus sees the congregations\u2019 problems as being a direct result of the pastors\u2019 failure to do their job.<\/em><\/span><\/p>\n

============<\/span><\/p>\n

If the message intended for the angels of the churches and not the churches, how should we interpret Revelation 22:16?<\/span><\/p>\n

============<\/span><\/p>\n

Most translations have something like, \u201cI have sent my messenger to testify of these things for the Assemblies.\u201d\u00a0\u00a0The welfare of the Assemblies is the whole point of every message that is in John\u2019s Revelation, whether the message be of things to come in the future or the spiritual condition of a pastor and his congregation.\u00a0\u00a0That is how I read Revelation 22:16.<\/em><\/span><\/p>\n

============<\/span><\/p>\n

One more thing. The fact that the singular is used doesn\u2019t mean that the message is not to the whole congregation.\u00a0\u00a0In many OT passages, the singular personal pronoun “you” is used when God speaks to the people of Israel (Isaiah 30:20-21).<\/span><\/p>\n

============<\/span><\/p>\n

The subject in those verses from Isaiah is \u201cpeople\u201d (verse 19), which in Hebrew is a singular noun, and when \u201cpeople\u201d is the subject, the following verbs and pronouns are often, but not always, singular.\u00a0\u00a0The same holds true for words such as \u201cIsrael\u201d.\u00a0\u00a0A group is meant, but the word itself is singular.\u00a0\u00a0But Hebrew grammar is inconsistent in this and other matters.<\/em><\/span><\/p>\n

The same cannot be said about the word \u201cmessenger\u201d in Revelation.\u00a0\u00a0That refers to a person, never to a group, and the singular\u00a0you’s\u00a0in Revelation 2 and 3 refer only to the messenger of the congregation.\u00a0\u00a0When Jesus addresses the whole congregation instead of the messenger, he uses the plural form of\u00a0you\u00a0instead \u2013 very consistently.<\/em><\/span><\/p>\n

=============<\/span><\/p>\n

Some examples of this usage can also be found in the NT like in Matthew 23:37-39.<\/span><\/p>\n

=============<\/span><\/p>\n

Here are those verses (my translation, with notes):<\/em><\/span><\/p>\n

    \n
  1. \u201cO Jerusalem!\u00a0\u00a0Jerusalem!\u00a0\u00a0She who kills [singular] the prophets and stones [singular] those who are sent to her!\u00a0\u00a0How many times have I wanted to gather your [singular] children together, the way a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but\u00a0y<\/em>ou [plural] would not!<\/span><\/li>\n
  2. Behold!\u00a0\u00a0Y<\/em>our [plural] house is left to\u00a0y<\/em>ou [plural], desolate.\u00a0<\/span><\/li>\n
  3. For I tell\u00a0y<\/em>ou [plural],\u00a0y<\/em>ou [plural] will by no means see me from now on, until\u00a0y<\/em>ou [plural] say, \u2018Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord.\u2019\u201d<\/span><\/li>\n<\/ol>\n

    The subject of these verses being \u201cJerusalem\u201d (a singular noun referring to a group), one may use either a singular or plural verb or pronoun.\u00a0\u00a0This is not the case with words which never signify a group, such as \u201cking\u201d, \u201cwife\u201d, or \u201cmessenger\u201d.<\/em><\/span><\/p>\n

    ============<\/span><\/p>\n

    I hope you will be honest in your answer, Pastor Clark.<\/span><\/p>\n

    Thank you in advance.<\/span><\/p>\n

    Humbly,<\/span><\/p>\n

    Herbert Julien<\/span><\/p>\n

    ============<\/span><\/p>\n

    I have done my best, Mr. Julien.\u00a0\u00a0Feel free to let me know if I have failed to answer any of your questions adequately.\u00a0\u00a0Please stay in touch.<\/em><\/span><\/p>\n

    Your servant in Christ,<\/em><\/span><\/p>\n

    John<\/em><\/span><\/p>\n

    PS. I do hope you will read the section of my online book on Revelation which deals with the messages to the seven pastors.<\/em><\/p>\n

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    \u00a0<\/em><\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

    Hi Mr. Julien. Thank you for reading what I wrote, for thinking about it, and for letting me know what you thought.\u00a0\u00a0There is no other way for us to be made one than to be open with one another. I have inserted my replies to your good questions within your letter, below. Thank you again […]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":2,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[6],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-12453","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-qa"],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/pastorjohnshouse.com\/mailbag\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/12453"}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/pastorjohnshouse.com\/mailbag\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/pastorjohnshouse.com\/mailbag\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/pastorjohnshouse.com\/mailbag\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/2"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/pastorjohnshouse.com\/mailbag\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=12453"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/pastorjohnshouse.com\/mailbag\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/12453\/revisions"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/pastorjohnshouse.com\/mailbag\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=12453"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/pastorjohnshouse.com\/mailbag\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=12453"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/pastorjohnshouse.com\/mailbag\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=12453"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}