{"id":609,"date":"2009-11-11T16:09:24","date_gmt":"2009-11-11T20:09:24","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/pastorjohnshouse.com\/Correspondence\/?p=609"},"modified":"2009-11-11T16:09:24","modified_gmt":"2009-11-11T20:09:24","slug":"speaking-in-tongues-for-salvation","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/pastorjohnshouse.com\/mailbag\/609\/speaking-in-tongues-for-salvation\/","title":{"rendered":"Speaking in Tongues for Salvation"},"content":{"rendered":"

http:\/\/www.goingtojesus.com\/tongues-at-spirit-baptism.html<\/span><\/a><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

Dear Brother John,<\/p>\n

I received your book and was absolutely thunderstruck.\u00a0 I am not sure how you arrived at your conclusions because you said that you tried to convince yourself otherwise regarding tongues and salvation.\u00a0 I am sure you’ve heard it all before, but the Bible says not to grow weary in doing good, so here are my reasons from the Bible as to why that theology is wrong.
\n===============<\/p>\n

Because of the modern confusion of terms “saved” and ‘converted”, and if you don’t mind, my friend, I will from this point on replace your words “salvation” or “saved” with the\u00a0 words “<\/span>conversion<\/span>” or “converted<\/span>“ where applicable, so as to reduce any misunderstanding between us.\u00a0 (I believe you meant to say “tongues and conversion” in the paragraph above, rather than “tongues and salvation”, for example.)<\/span><\/em><\/span>
\n===============
\nHere are the verses that completely go against what you teach:<\/p>\n

9That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved. 11As the Scripture says, “Anyone who trusts in him will never be put to shame.” 12For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile\u2014the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him, 13for, “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”
\nRomans 10:9-13<\/p>\n

This confession is integral to the Christian faith, because at this point the person is no longer in control of their life, but rather it is Christ who has become Lord.\u00a0 (I know you tie this to 1 Cor. 12:3, and I do too, but not in the same way you do)
\n===============<\/p>\n

You do not understand Romans 10:9-13.\u00a0 Please consider my brief explanation of it in the fourth chapter of my book, Spiritual Light, under the section “Two Rocks”.\u00a0 It is on line at <\/em>www.GoingtoJesus.com<\/em><\/a><\/span><\/p>\n

I am pleased, however, that you made that connection between Romans 10 and 1Corinthians 12:3.\u00a0 You have obviously given this some thought, and I am grateful for that.\u00a0 Thank you.<\/em><\/span>
\n===============
\nSo this leads to a question, do you believe that God has given us free will?\u00a0 Or does He force us to accept Him, or deny Him?\u00a0 Because if it is only those that speak in tongues:<\/p>\n

7Now to each one the manifestation of the Spirit is given for the common good…<\/strong>
\nto another distinguishing between spirits, to another speaking in different kinds of tongues<\/strong>, and to still another the interpretation of tongues. 11All these are the work of one and the same Spirit, and he gives them to each one, just as he determines<\/strong>.
\n14Now the body is not made up of one part but of many.
\n18But in fact God has arranged the parts in the body, every one of them, just as he wanted them to be<\/strong>. 19If they were all one part, where would the body be? 20As it is, there are many parts, but one body<\/strong>.
\n21The eye cannot say to the hand, “I don’t need you!” And the head cannot say to the feet, “I don’t need you!”
\nAre all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Do all work miracles? 30Do all have gifts of healing? Do all speak in tongues? Do all interpret? 31But eagerly desire the greater gifts.
\n1 Corinthians 12:7, 10-11, 14, 18-21, 29-31<\/p>\n

So if you believed that only those that speak in tongues will truly be saved, then that means that some people that have only received the gift of prophecy are not going to heaven<\/strong> because this clearly states that not everyone speaks in tongues.<\/p>\n

And if you say, “Well, tongues are just the first sign, but later they might not have the gift.”<\/p>\n

“for God’s gifts and his call are irrevocable.”\u00a0 Romans 11:29<\/strong><\/p>\n

So either they got it and kept it, or He doesn’t want them in heaven.
\n============<\/p>\n

I think you over looked something that I explained at the beginning of my book of Speaking in Tongues.\u00a0 (And it is clear from the multitude of responses I have received from across the country and beyond, it is obvious that I did not stress this enough, for it is often missed.)\u00a0 The issue of the gift of diverse languages is not the subject of the book.\u00a0 Therefore, Paul’s instructions to the saints in Corinth concerning some of the gifts of the Spirit are irrelevant.\u00a0 The book does not deal with gifts.<\/em><\/span><\/p>\n

I ave been speaking in tongues for several decades now, and I do not have the gift of diverse languages which Paul mentioned in 1Corinthains 12.<\/span>
\n<\/em><\/span>============<\/p>\n

but because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions\u2014it is by grace you have been saved<\/strong>. 6And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus, 7in order that in the coming ages he might show the incomparable riches of his grace, expressed in his kindness to us in Christ Jesus. 8For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith\u2014and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God\u2014 9not by works, so that no one can boast<\/strong>. 10For we are God’s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.<\/p>\n

You see, Ephesians 2:4-10 clearly states that it is through Faith in Jesus alone, and then we receive the gift.\u00a0 Because Who\/what is greater, the Giver or the gift?<\/p>\n

============<\/p>\n

I don’t think that Paul teaches that anything is by faith alone.\u00a0 I certainly don’t see it here.\u00a0 Not does he teach that salvation is by by grace alone.\u00a0 The saving of a soul requires the combination of God’s grace and man’s response in faith to that grace.\u00a0 That is the way of salvation.\u00a0 Right?<\/em><\/span>
\n============<\/p>\n

And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed (past tense), you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, 14who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession\u2014to the praise of his glory.\u00a0 Ephesians 1:13-14
\n============<\/p>\n

What in the world kind of translation of ev toe in verse 13 is that?\u00a0 It is completely wrong.\u00a0 Paul did not tell those people that they were included in Christ when they heard the word of truth.\u00a0 That is false doctrine.\u00a0 The period which the translator you(?) added to the middle of that verse obviously does not belong, for (in Paul’s original words) the first part of the verse is incomplete if it stands alone.<\/em><\/span>
\n============<\/p>\n

It is receiving the Holy Spirit, not His gift, that saves us.
\n============<\/p>\n

The gift of God is the Spirit (Acts 2:38; 8:20; 10:45 and 11:17).\u00a0 The “gift of God” is eternal life (Rom. 6:23), and the holy Spirit is life (Rom. 8:10).\u00a0 For us to receive that eternal life is the very reason Jesus suffered and died (Jn. 10:10).<\/em><\/span>
\n============<\/p>\n

The Bible explicitly states that if:<\/p>\n

You confess with your mouth Jesus is Lord.\u00a0\u00a0 Romans 10:9
\nBelieve in you heart God raised Him from the dead\u00a0 Romans 10:9
\nRepent, turn from sin\u00a0 Acts 2:38
\nBe baptized Acts 2:38 (though later 1 Peter 3:21 gives us more clue to this)<\/p>\n

That is how you come to Christ.
\n============<\/p>\n

Only numbers 3 and 4 in your list is how we come to Christ.\u00a0 Numbers 1 and 2 are directed only to those who are already in Christ (look at Romans 10:1).\u00a0 In those verses, Paul is simply reminding believers of what they already knew they must do to be saved in the end.\u00a0 (If you read the section of my book, Spiritual Light, that I suggested, you will certainly change your view of Romans 10:9-10).<\/em><\/span><\/p>\n

You are right to say that 1Peter 3:21 clarifies the issue of baptism because in it, Peter says that a baptism which washes the body from filth is not the one that saves, but the baptism that came “by the resurrection of Jesus Christ” does!\u00a0 I’m glad you noticed that.
\n<\/em><\/span>=============<\/p>\n

Later we learn that any branch that does not bear fruit will be chopped down and thrown in the fire, And so we must grow as well, that’s where the gifts and workings come into effect.
\n=============<\/p>\n

That is why I do not use the world “salvation” to mean “conversion”.\u00a0 Conversion is for now (when one is baptized by the Spirit), and salvation is our hope.\u00a0 It will be given to converted people at the end if they have been faithful to Christ.
\n<\/em><\/span>=============<\/p>\n

But the Bible warns us:<\/p>\n

I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you by the grace of Christ<\/strong> and are turning to a different gospel\u2014 7which is really no gospel at all. Evidently some people are throwing you into confusion and are trying to pervert the gospel of Christ. 8But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned<\/strong>! 9As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let him be eternally condemned!<\/strong>\u00a0 Galatians 1:6-9<\/p>\n

“We who are Jews by birth and not ‘Gentile sinners’ 16know that a man is not justified by observing the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ<\/strong>. So we, too, have put our faith in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by observing the law, because by observing the law no one will be justified.\u00a0 Galatians 2:15-16<\/p>\n

I warn you as a brother, please, don’t go off on a tangent that only breeds division and malice towards the different parts of God’s body, but rather act in love.\u00a0 Because I must say, this type of teaching has only divided the believers around the world, not united them.
\n============<\/p>\n

Jesus warned us not to think that he came to bring peace, but division (Lk. 12:51).\u00a0 The truth always divides.\u00a0 The point, however, is not simply whether truth divides, but who is divided from whom by the truth?\u00a0 I will contend that the humble and prudent are never divided by the truth, but are united by it.\u00a0 It is not I, my friend, but Christianity that has divided the children of God into a thousand different sects.\u00a0 We can certainly agree on that, can we not?<\/em><\/span><\/p>\n

Why you do not understand, however, is that the principal tool used by Satan to divide God’s people is the doctrine that they are born of the Spirit before they are baptized by the Spirit (with the evidence of speaking in tongues).\u00a0 The denial of what the new birth really is, is the foundation of all of Christian sects, and that is why God is calling His people to come out of all of them and be free.\u00a0 He will heal all division among us if we will obey Him and turn loose of the Christian divisions that separate us.<\/em><\/span>
\n============<\/p>\n

Here is a list of those that were never recorded as speaking in tongues:<\/p>\n

Jesus
\nThe man on the cross with Jesus
\nThe Jailer with Paul and Silas
\nDavid
\nMoses
\nNoah
\nAbraham
\netc…
\nIn fact, only in rare places in the OT did anyone ever have the Spirit of the Lord come upon them, and it was always by His choice.\u00a0 So…<\/p>\n

But the other criminal rebuked him. “Don’t you fear God,” he said, “since you are under the same sentence? 41We are punished justly, for we are getting what our deeds deserve. But this man has done nothing wrong.”
\n42Then he said, “Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom.”
\n43Jesus answered him, “I tell you the truth, today<\/strong> you will be with me in paradise.”
\n============<\/p>\n

Almost all of those you mention lived before the Spirit was even given (Jn. 7:37-39).\u00a0 How, then, could they possibly have spoken in tongues?\u00a0 Jesus had to die and ascend to the father before that happened.\u00a0 He himself said so several times at the last supper.<\/em><\/span><\/p>\n

Yes, there is nothing explicitly said about Jesus or the Roman jailer speaking in tongues, but there is nothing said about Jesus and the Roman jailer not speaking in tongues, either.\u00a0 Your argument, based on silence, is illogical.<\/em><\/span>
\n============<\/p>\n

Quite a few days later<\/strong>:<\/p>\n

Do not leave Jerusalem, but wait for the gift my Father promised, which you have heard me speak about. 5For John baptized with water, but in a few days you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit<\/strong>.”<\/p>\n

the thief on the cross either got around the rules, or else the rules were never that you had to speak in tongues in the first place.
\n============<\/p>\n

Not at all.\u00a0 You are ignorant of when the NT began, my friend.\u00a0 The thief on the cross died under the Old Testament.\u00a0 The NT began only after Jesus died (Heb. 9) and rose form the dead (1Cor. 15:1-3).\u00a0 The coming of the holy Spirit of life in Acts 2, the “baptism of the holy Ghost”, which was the giving of a new birth, marked the beginning of the New Testament of Jesus Christ.<\/em><\/span><\/p>\n

(Did you notice that in your own Scripture, “the gift promised by the Father” is the Spirit?)<\/em><\/span>
\n============<\/p>\n

And also, why would Paul say, “I would like every one of you to speak in tongues, but I would rather have you prophesy. He who prophesies is greater than one who speaks in tongues<\/strong>, unless he interprets, so that the church may be edified.”<\/p>\n

You see, the point of tongues is for spiritual growth<\/strong>, not conversion<\/span>.<\/p>\n

7But to each one of us grace has been given as Christ apportioned it. 8This is why it says:
\n“When he ascended on high,
\nhe led captives in his train
\nand gave gifts to men.” 9(What does “he ascended” mean except that he also descended to the lower, earthly regions? 10He who descended is the very one who ascended higher than all the heavens, in order to fill the whole universe.) 11It was he who gave some to be apostles, some to be prophets, some to be evangelists, and some to be pastors and teachers,<\/p>\n

Why does He give some to be Apostles, prophets…etc?\u00a0 Each with their own talents and gifts?<\/p>\n

12to prepare God’s people for works of service, so that the body of Christ may be built up 13until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God and become mature, attaining to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ<\/strong>.\u00a0\u00a0 Ephesians 4:7-13<\/p>\n

I wish that all men were as I am. But each man has his own gift from God; one has this gift, another has that<\/strong>.
\n1 corinthians 7:7<\/p>\n

Each one should use whatever gift he has received to serve others<\/strong>, faithfully administering God’s grace in its various forms.
\n1 peter 4:10
\n===========<\/p>\n

There are thousands of gift God may distribute among His people.\u00a0 My book on speaking in Tongues deals with none of them.<\/em><\/span>
\n===========<\/p>\n

Gifts are for the members of Christ’s body.
\n===========<\/p>\n

Now, we can agree.<\/em><\/span>
\n===========<\/p>\n

God will not give a gift to those that don’t even have the Giver yet.
\n===========<\/p>\n

. . . except for the gift of the Spirit, by the which the Giver and His Son both come into us.\u00a0 Right?<\/em><\/span>
\n===========<\/p>\n

You can’t speak in tongues unless you are already converted<\/span>,
\n===========<\/p>\n

The truth is that when you speak in tongues, the Spirit is confessing Christ through you, saying “abba, Father!” (Rom. 8).\u00a0 And it is the Spirit’s testimony, not yours, which confirms that you have been born into the family of God.\u00a0 “The Spirit is the witness because the Spirit is truth.”<\/em><\/span>
\n===========<\/p>\n

and you shouldn’t speak in tongues unless you are alone and it is between you and God, or you have someone to interpret, so that the Body of Christ may be built up until we all reach unity in the faith.
\n===========<\/p>\n

Paul is talking about the exercising of the gift of diverse languages when he gave those instructions, my friend.<\/em><\/span>
\n===========<\/p>\n

Please, I beg you, fast and pray and seek God’s face.\u00a0 He will answer you, but you have to give up what you think you know.
\n===========<\/p>\n

Being willing to be wrong is how how I got here!<\/em><\/span>
\n===========<\/p>\n

The man who thinks he knows something does not yet know as he ought to know. But the man who loves God is known by God<\/strong>.
\n1 Corinthians 8:2-3
\n==========<\/p>\n

Amen.<\/span>
\n<\/em><\/span>==========<\/p>\n

Also if you are going by the great feelings and wonderful things happening in your group so that your faith rest upon them, remember this:<\/p>\n

We live by faith, not by sight<\/strong>. 2 Cor. 5:7
\n==========<\/p>\n

But we don’t see the wonderful things we feel.\u00a0 So I suppose it’s OK to feel them(?)<\/span>
\n<\/em><\/span>==========<\/p>\n

The devil is able to give us good feelings, tongues and miracles as well, but he brings in lies with it all.
\n==========<\/p>\n

He never did that for me, all those years I served him.<\/span>
\n<\/em><\/span>==========<\/p>\n

I dealt with a demon possessed man that spoke in tongues, demonic tongues.
\n==========<\/p>\n

I think the deadliest demons are those who have the craftiness to persuade God’s children (the ones with the holy Ghost) to trust men who do not have the Spirit to guide them to eternal life.\u00a0 It is incredible to me that ministers of Satan can talk God’s children into believing that they do not need the very thing Jesus gave them.<\/span>
\n<\/em><\/span>==========<\/p>\n

And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light<\/strong>. 15It is not surprising, then, if his servants masquerade as servants of righteousness. Their end will be what their actions deserve.
\n2 Cor. 11:14-15
\n==========<\/p>\n

Amen.\u00a0 Let’s pray that God exposes them all.<\/em><\/span>
\n==========<\/p>\n

For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and miracles to deceive even the elect<\/strong>\u2014if that were possible.
\nMatthew 24:24
\n==========<\/p>\n

Yes, and these are the most deceptive of Satan’s ministers.\u00a0 Men with the Spirit who, usually for money and fame, teach others that they don’t need the holy ghost in order to be saved.\u00a0 Isn’t that crazy?\u00a0 Nevertheless, it is happening.\u00a0 May God help us and all those who trust in His Son to escape those foolish men.<\/em><\/span><\/p>\n

—
\nNow to him who is able to do immeasurably more than all we ask or imagine, according to his power that is at work within us, to him be glory in the church and in Christ Jesus throughout all generations, for ever and ever! Amen.<\/p>\n

Rob<\/p>\n

==========<\/p>\n

Thank you for writing, Rob.\u00a0 I hope that some day we will “see eye to eye” and march into Zion together.<\/em><\/span><\/p>\n

Pastor John<\/em><\/span><\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

http:\/\/www.goingtojesus.com\/tongues-at-spirit-baptism.html   Dear Brother John, I received your book and was absolutely thunderstruck.\u00a0 I am not sure how you arrived at your conclusions because you said that you tried to convince yourself otherwise regarding tongues and salvation.\u00a0 I am sure you’ve heard it all before, but the Bible says not to grow weary in doing […]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":2,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[6],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-609","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-qa"],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/pastorjohnshouse.com\/mailbag\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/609"}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/pastorjohnshouse.com\/mailbag\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/pastorjohnshouse.com\/mailbag\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/pastorjohnshouse.com\/mailbag\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/2"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/pastorjohnshouse.com\/mailbag\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=609"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/pastorjohnshouse.com\/mailbag\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/609\/revisions"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/pastorjohnshouse.com\/mailbag\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=609"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/pastorjohnshouse.com\/mailbag\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=609"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/pastorjohnshouse.com\/mailbag\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=609"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}